Hey, Taiwan experts! Here’s a polling question for you:

Lee-Yen Wang writes:

I have a question about comparing polls in presidential elections in Taiwan.

The four candidates are:

– Mr. A: Hou Yu-ih, mayor of New Taipei City, from Taiwan’s main opposition Kuomintang (KMT) party.

– Mr. B: Dr. Ko Wen-je, ex-mayor of Taipei, Chairman of the People’s Party (TPP), a much smaller opposition party than the KMT.

– Mr. C: Lai Ching-te, Vice President and the Chairman of the Democratic Progressive Party (DPP), the ruling party.

– Ms. D: Hsiao Bi-khim, former envoy to the United States and a member of the DPP.

My question concers the best method for comparing polls to determine the optimal candidate pairing for president and vice president.

The scenario involves two competing candidates, Mr. A and Mr. B, who want to decide who should be the presidential candidate and who should be the vice presidential candidate, while facing a decided pair, CD.

Polls are conducted for both AB vs. CD and BA vs. CD. Different combinations of AB and BA may have varying strengths against CD. The poll comparisons are listed below, with only the title row representing the comparison shown:

AB CD AB-CD BA CD BA-CD (AB-CD) -(BA-CD)

My question is: which approach is more reasonable for determining which pair of combinations, AB or BA, is stronger against CD?

A and B campaigned heavily for the presidential nomination, with the loser in the polls becoming the vice presidential candidate. However, AB-CD elicits a different response in the polls than BA-CD.

This can be simulated: AB vs. CD is 48% to 46%, while BA vs. CD is 41% to 32%. In the case of AB vs. BA, AB beats BA by 7%. However, if we use the difference of the difference, we get 2% vs. 9%, and the difference of the difference is 7%, favoring BA. These two approaches yield inconsistent results. In a high-stakes election where both candidates campaign intensely, which approach do you suggest is theoretically sound for comparison?

The aforementioned scenario played out vividly in the recent presidential election in Taiwan in January. The controversy over resolving the tie ultimately led to the split of candidates A and B just before the official candidate registration deadline.

They each quickly chose their own vice presidential candidates to run against the CD pair.

The key question is how best to compare the poll results. There are several options:
– Should we simply compare AB vs. BA using the margin of error and ignore the situation to compare the difference of the difference?
– Should we use the margin of error as a metric and apply it to compare the difference of the difference?
– Should we instead use the ratio of estimation and normalize the probability of AB and BA?
– Should we employ the ratio method of estimation and compare the difference of the difference, where we normalize p = (AB – CD)/((AB – CD) + (BA – CD)) and q = 1-p? The question is whether this operation makes sense.

Are there other effective methods for comparing surveys that could solve this dilemma?

I have no idea what’s going on in this story. No idea at all. But I thought some Taiwan experts might be interested, so I’m posting here.

4 thoughts on “Hey, Taiwan experts! Here’s a polling question for you:”

  1. So president-vice president pair CD is running on that ticket. The question is whether the oppostion pair should brun as AB or BA, ie which one should run as president.

    I guess some simulations were run and these percentages are proportion of the time a given party won the election:
    AB vs CD: 48% to 46%
    BA vs CD: 41% to 32%

    Should A/B go with the ticket that won 48% of the time? Or the ticket that more likely to defeat CD? Presumably there is some third ticket that wins 100 – 41 -32 = 27% of the time for the BA case.

    This isn’t really about stats, its about choosing what outcome you are trying to maximize.

    If A/B wants to maximize getting into office, then run as AB. If they want to maximize keeping CD out of office, then run as BA.

  2. There is actually a very funny background to this. Elections are coming up next year in Taiwan. The current government is leading the polls, but only because the opposition is split between two parties. They tried to change that by „marrying“ both parties together. They won’t, because of egos and… confidence intervals!

    Long aforementioned story (https://frozengarlic.wordpress.com/2023/11/18/the-big-reveal-goes-awry/) short: they agreed that the leader of united party should be the more senior one unless the junior one get a lead in the polls of more than a confidence interval. Well turned out they were not only not clear what method to use in the polls but also didn’t understand how to use CIs! So they split. Quite publicly and opera-like.

    In an earlier post on comparative CIs this week (https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2023/12/02/on-a-proposal-to-scale-confidence-intervals-so-that-their-overlap-can-be-more-easily-interpreted/) you wrote „Not every idea has to be useful. Interesting is important too.“ Maybe you were wrong. „Will the US have a war with China“-Level of wrong ;)

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