“big companies care about profits, academics care about prestige”

In the discussion of this entry by Peter Woit on open-access publishing, John Baez writes about the motivations of scientists who write for academic journals. He has some interesting things to say, but I think he’s missing some big issues. Here’s Baez:

So, even as the university library is crying for help, struggling to pay the ever-growing costs of journals run by the big media conglomerates, the science faculty continues to publish in these journals, because their careers depend on it.

The science faculty also work as editors for these journals, typically for no pay – just for the prestige of being on the editorial board. They also work without pay refereeing articles for these journals. They write papers that appear in volumes published by the same media conglomerates, again just for the prestige of having a paper in a prestigious volume. And, they write books for presses owned by the same conglomerates.

I [Baez] find these activities to be a bit more craven, because I haven’t seen people getting hired just because they do these things. But, just as millionaires work their ass off to become billionaires, a lot of the most prestigious scientists engage in these activities to polish their reputations to an ever finer sheen. This is especially true of people who have given up trying to do original research.

I [Baez] get lots of invitations to write books and papers for various collections, because people know I can write. These days I almost always turn them down. I’ve learned a key fact: when someone gives me an honor, it’s usually a way to get me to do work for free. I still give lots of talks, because I get free travel out of it, and I really enjoy explaining stuff. But writing review papers for volumes published by prestigious publishers – that’s something I’ve come to really dislike.

Each time I turn such an offer down, I feel a little ache, because I know I’ll miss out on a little piece of prestige. For example, I could have contributed to the forthcoming “Princeton Companion to Mathematics”. I almost did – what a great opportunity! But I didn’t. I’d rather do whatever the hell I want on a given day – usually thinking about math and physics. I’m in an incredibly lucky position where I can afford to do this; it seems insane not to.

In short, to understand what’s going on, you have to realize: big companies care about profits, academics care about prestige.

My comments:

Yes, prestige (buffing our reputations to “an ever finer sheen”) is certainly a big issue, maybe partly because we’ve been trained to do this ever since we were in high school and trying for that perfect grade point average that would get us into the right college, etc. (I imagine it’s even worse in poorer countries where there’s major competition to get into college at all.)

But I think the motivation is more altruistic. I don’t know what’s in the Princeton Companion to Mathematics, but in general I don’t think that much, if any, prestige, comes from writing encyclopedia articles. When I do such things, it’s more out of a sense of service to the community or from some desire to communicate: my thought is, if people are going to read an encyclopedia article on “statistical graphics” or “Bayesian statistics” or whatever, I’d like them to learn the real thing (i.e., my perspective on it). These things take time, though, so I can understand why Baez said no to the invitation to contribute to the volume.

Ultimately the reason that I (and others, I think) do much of our research (and why we give talks) is: if I’ve gone to the trouble of figuring something out, I’d like others to hear about it and make use of it. Basically an altruistic (or evangelical) motivation.

That said, I agree with much of Baez’s criticism of academic publishing. It does seem a bit weird to me that authors and referees provide services for free. Nowadays the role of journals seems to be to give a stamp of approval on research, not to actually “publish,” so it’s not clear why the system should be so expensive. Peer review is another screwed-up system, but that’s another story.

A dermarcation?

A cynic might say, how can we distinguish between “prestige” (Baez’s claim) and “altruism” (my claim). One demarcation would be to consider your reaction if an idea or paper, equivalent to yours, is published by someone else. You get no prestige from this, but the outcome to the scientific field is the same as if you had published it yourself. Thinking about it, I admit that, all things equal, I’d prefer to have the article published under my name (although, still, I don’t think of this as “prestige” but more as “credit”), but I’d still be happy to have it out there. I certainly feel that way about review articles (which is one reason that XIao-Li and I edited a volume of review articles ourselves).

6 thoughts on ““big companies care about profits, academics care about prestige”

  1. As a graduate student just starting to produce some first-author papers, I'd be interested to read your take on the peer review system.

  2. nice post. it might be altruism or just a broader search for meaning. someone once asked why i published a review piece in corrections management quarterly. it sure ain't prestige. i just like the idea of the work reaching an audience of prison wardens rather than (or, more precisely, in addition to) sociologists. lots of academics seem to do such stuff for similar reasons.

  3. Hi Andrew,

    Interesting posting. Recently I've had the experience of publishing a book that I feel was written for "altruistic" reasons (i.e. to get my superior point of view before the public), rather than "prestige" reasons (i.e. to get my name before the public). A book by someone else (Lee Smolin) with a very similar point of view has come out at almost precisely the same time. I do find myself pleased when I see that his book is getting attention, but will confess to some twinges of "why aren't they also mentioning mine?" when just his gets mentioned. In cases though where the attention is negative and all on him (i.e. a hostile review), I don't feel unhappy that he's the one taking all the heat…

  4. First as it said that business men care about money and academic people care more about prestige, actually there is one common thing behind is that they all care about the sense of success, the feeling of being confirmed by people around them and by the society.

    In most cases the motivation of doing one thing is not simply one reason, but a combination, or call it balance, of several different considerations, including benefits to the others (as altruism) such as helping others learning, scientific improvement, knowledge popularization, etc, and benefits to self, such as interest, experience, profit, prestige, self-improvement, etc. I don’t think it is wise to reject doing something just because one of the reasons to do that thing is for prestige. Prestige is not such a bad or shamed reason, instead many times it pressures people into doing many good things. In order to pursue prestige you may work harder, cooperate more with other people, make more discoveries, publish more paper and contribute more to the academic world meanwhile. The key point here is that it definitely should not be acting as the sole reason or the dominant one when making decision.

  5. i think people publish in journals to firstly seek acknowledgement: to let the (academic) world know who they are and what they are capable of. afterwards come either prestige or altruism, or perhaps both. re encyclopedia articles, it's still YOU who writes it (and that's why they read yours rather than someone else's). for measuring pure altruistic and evangelical, perhaps one could try to stay anonymous.

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